How to Deal with Pushback as You Grow

Jessilyn Persson: [00:02:39] Learning to read the room is such an essential tool. So many people don’t do it, but when you have that tool in your tool belt, you can be in any room and be comfortable. Even if the conversation isn’t where you want it to be, you’ll know what to say and when to say it if you can read the room, the people in it, and maybe how they will respond to whatever conversation you’re looking to have.

 

Brian Persson: [00:03:08] When we built our real estate portfolio, I remember a lot of people going, oh wow, you have that much in real estate? To us, it wasn’t a big deal. We were like, no, we want a lot more than this. We’re working really hard to try and get there. People almost got offended by the fact that we already had that much. This is not a whole lot of real estate in any significant terms. I think at that time when people started commenting on this, we had three small condos downtown and we had bought one of our first houses. People just thought, holy man, you got to this level? We wanted to get so much farther beyond that. I recall not being able to associate with them. My ability to read them was really low at that time. We would say things that sounded insulting to them. We were trying to get somewhere further ahead and not really understanding where we were at that moment. There was this disconnect between how we were talking to them and how they were actually hearing what we were saying.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:04:22] The general population who doesn’t invest in real estate, or maybe even much in wealth, it can come across as arrogant and flashy. If we’re like, I own this many doors, this many million of properties, it’s like they can’t understand that level. It’s hard for them and it makes it hard for you to have the conversation. But if you read the room and realize that you have that, stay humble about it, and speak to their world. Again, not their level. We’re not saying come down, to stoop to their level if they’re not in a space to come up, but understand their world and that they may not be able to connect to you and what you’re saying, and they may not engage because they may not know how.

 

Brian Persson: [00:05:13] What you say about stooping is, you don’t have to lower your standards in order to associate with them. It’s not about that. It’s just about coming down to where their thought patterns are, where their mindset is, and starting with them there. It’s like a very experienced professional of some sort, to the outside world that professional looks like he’s working magic, but really he’s got 10 or 20 years experience on it, and he’s skipped all the steps from A to magic. If you start with the magic, people don’t understand what you’re really doing, and so you got to come back down to ‘A’, where they are, and start walking forward with them from there. That’s what reading the room is about is, where are you now in your journey, and let me meet you there.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:06:06] I’ve shared this before, that I’m a project manager in IT, and I work with a lot of people on a daily basis. My life here where I’m building my wealth, investing in real estate, coaching, speaking, being an author, is a whole different life. I know most of the people I work with can’t even imagine, never mind understand, that world. I just don’t speak about it when I’m in meetings with them, or even if I’m out for lunch, unless I know that they’re familiar with my world and they’re asking me questions. I don’t necessarily openly start talking about it because it can intimidate them, it can make them feel very small. When they’re like, you’re an author? How do you have time to be an author? I can’t even find time to wash my hair on a Tuesday. It sounds so simple, but they can’t, and they get into overload, and then they just start kind of doubting themselves, which you don’t want them to do either.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:07:09] On the flip side, I also don’t hide it. Be okay to shine the bright star that you are, if you’re excelling in life in whatever that looks like. When it comes to developing yourself and your mindset and growing who you are personally, more positively and more with wealth, read the room and just know that sometimes it’s meant to be kept to yourself, and to your dearest friends or your spouse or whatever within your household. It doesn’t need to be shared across the world, you can grow your wealth quietly and still be very successful and shine and get to where you want. You probably will even do it quicker and with less doubt and fear if you do it more in your quaint little circle than if you’re shouting it from the mountaintop, where you will get your naysayers. You will. We know most people have in our circle, but if you can avoid the energy that it takes to deal with that and just keep focusing on being positive and building, you’ll go so much further, faster.

 

Brian Persson: [00:08:24] Speaking of naysayers, that’s one thing that’s going to come along with your growth. Whether it’s your growth personally, whether it’s your growth in wealth, the more you grow, the more people are going to come out of the woodwork and naysay what you’re doing. It goes hand in hand. The harder you push towards wealth, the harder the naysayers are going to push against you, and the more of them you’re going to find. Unfortunately, that’s one of the things that you have to develop, is a thick skin to deal with those naysayers because they’re going to come.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:08:57] Absolutely. That rolls well into our takeaway number two which is, you’ll find people are threatened by you. That could look like resistance, jealousy, people judging you, making all kinds of comments. Some of them are very well-meaning, like family members. They don’t want to see you get hurt, and that could look like failing. They don’t want you to fail because then you’re going to get hurt. They’re going to speak up and be like, you shouldn’t do that, that’s not safe, that’s not wise, I don’t think I would recommend that. I know we experienced a little bit of that with your parents.

 

Brian Persson: [00:09:36] Yeah, both of our parents in different ways. My parents, it was, we were shouting from the mountaintop back then. That’s really what was going on, and it was 100% our error. We were not reading the room of, what my family dynamics were. We were like, there’s this thing and it’s called real estate investing and blah, blah, blah. Everything we did was around real estate investing and how excited we were to grow inside of this new ‘game’ we had found. My parents didn’t want to hear anything about it. They listened for a little while and then somewhere in their mind, eventually it snapped and they said, this is not the family we want. They said, no business, no real estate talk at all during family gatherings. We were like, oh. It was a little bit hurtful, but again, we were completely inexperienced in how we should go about that because we were, incorrectly, shouting from the mountain top.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:10:41] We had enthusiasm and excitement. We were so excited in what we were doing and we wanted to share it. Not to brag, we wanted to share it because we wanted them to be included in the decisions if they wanted, and in the options and growing with us, but they didn’t want any of it. They just shut it down and we weren’t expecting it, so that’s where the pain came in. It took us some time to assess what happened there.

 

Brian Persson: [00:11:11] It comes down to, people aren’t going to move if they don’t want to move. That was our mistake where, we didn’t realize that there was a lot of people around us that were wanting to stay exactly where they were. My parents wanted to keep the family dynamic exactly like it was. To have business introduced into the family dynamic was a no-no. We didn’t recognize that at first, then we started to realize, you know what? All they want to do is make sure we’re safe, make sure we’re loved, and that is literally the end and the beginning of the relationship for them. We’re like, you know what? Great experience, helped us learn, we found other friends and other family members who fell into the same category, but we didn’t make the mistake with them because we’d already had that experience. We dialed it back and, only appropriately, talked to people in the circles that we needed to talk to them with.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:12:20] You want to put yourself in communities of like-minded people where it’s the norm to grow. We talk about this all the time, about a real estate room. It’s not just real estate rooms, I’m in rooms with women who are growing their businesses and empowering other women. It’s a great space to be, where you can be 100% authentically you, speak how you’re growing, they’re there and they support you and they’re growing with you. Just know that those are maybe the communities where you share openly versus with the family who isn’t quite so open-minded. Or with some of your work colleagues who aren’t quite there, or if you still have a lot of high school friends, they might not be growing either, and they might not understand it. You can feel resistance or, like I said, jealousy. An interesting one I had, when I was just about to become an author. I’d had my book written, it was with my publisher. We’re just wrapping up the final details before it got launched, and someone I had met in a course I was taking, he asked me one day, who are you to be an author? I didn’t even hesitate. I looked at him and I said, who are you not to be? Everyone has a story within them and they should share it. I know it had him thinking and he was like, that’s a good point. I think, just based on what he knew and where he came from, it just went over his head. You seem like you’re just a normal person, you’re married with kids, we’re taking this, it was an improv class is what we were taking together. He’s like, and you’re writing a book? He just didn’t know, he’s never met an author, he didn’t understand the world.

 

Brian Persson: [00:14:00] Normal people think that authors and speakers and celebrities aren’t normal people. The reality is that they are normal people. We have friends that are very experienced. I have a buddy out in Toronto that has a multi-millions of dollars portfolio. He saw one of your photos for a magazine that you’re going to be in shortly here. It’s a really good picture and a really good article, and even this guy who’s very experienced, has lots of connections that, somewhat jokingly but also a little bit of jealousy in there said, remember the little people when you guys get too big.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:14:49] I hear that every once in a while too, when people see my magazine article, seeing me being featured and, same thing. It’s like, can I get your autograph now before you forget me? It’s like, I’m still human, people. I’m still humble, this is still my home, you are still my friends.

 

Brian Persson: [00:15:05] Everybody seems to organize people into a pecking order of some sort. The reality is that everybody’s the same, it’s just a matter of how much commitment, how much sacrifice, what kind of focus they had in their life. It’s not a matter of whether one’s human and one is some alter-human superhero. People look up to celebrities and they get very shy and awkward around them. A recent experience of mine was, we went to a multi-family event and the guy putting it on, three days, he’s a really good showman, really good speaker. People were somewhat intimidated by him, because he just put this room together of 150 people, he has a $200 million portfolio, they looked at him like he was somehow untouchable, like they should not be going and talking to him. I remember at one break, I said to my friend, let’s go talk to Alfonso, the guy who was running the show. He’s like, what? We’re gonna go talk to him? I’m like, yeah let’s go talk to him. We just went up and chatted like three guys that would chat together over beers, or anything else, during this break, because he’s human. You can go and you can ask him questions, just like you would ask your coworker or ask your family member. They aren’t so far beyond you that they’re going to look at you and think your questions are weird, or think that the things that you’re approaching them about are weird. They’re just human.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:16:43] I find you get so much more, I don’t know if autonomy or freedom is the right word, when you realize all humans are human. You approach them as a human as opposed to a title. I say that because I work for the police, and I’ve seen over the years, some of my team members were not going to do certain things because of whom they had to speak with. If it was the chief, or a white shirt who is just under the chief, they won’t even say ‘excuse me’ to pass them in the hall. They will actually stand aside and wait until that person is ready to move. It’s like, are you kidding me?

 

Brian Persson: [00:17:24] Somehow it’s rude to ask someone to excuse themselves.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:17:29] So you can pass by to get to the kitchen or the bathroom or whatever it is. It’s incredible to watch human behavior. It’s simply a title, and it’s very intimidating for them. Something I want to touch on here also quickly is, because I’ve heard it a lot over the last 4 or 5 years as we’re growing. You hear some people who are doing very well for themselves and they say ‘it’s lonely at the top’. I always questioned this, then as we slowly moved up and we shifted who we hung out with I went, you know what? I don’t agree with it, personally. I can see how ‘it’s lonely at the top’ for sure, but we’ve chosen to surround ourselves with people who believe in us and want to be around us. Do we have less friends now? Yes. But we have quality over quantity. I wanted to note that when you hear ‘it’s lonely at the top’, the way we’ve experienced is, there are less people in your life, but the people in there are so amazing.

 

Brian Persson: [00:18:33] As you climb up the mountain, the air gets more rare and so do your friends. But the quality of your friends, and the view as you get up the mountain, turns a lot better.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:18:47] Yeah, exactly. What is takeaway number three? People might have to be left behind.

 

Brian Persson: [00:18:57] Exactly what we were talking about.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:18:58] If people in your life resist and actively talk down about your growth, it might be the right move to reduce your time with them. I know I’ve shared on previous podcasts that just three years ago I decided how to shift my relationship with my younger sister, and that meant zero communication. I was done with her negativity and her jealousy and her threats. I was like, this is not what I want my kids to learn and see. This is not what I want to introduce into my family. This is not helping me grow in any way. So I said, enough is enough. It wasn’t as simple as I’m making it sound, because I had to work through a lot to get there and understand my emotions and my thoughts around that. It, by far, was the best decision for me and our family.

 

Brian Persson: [00:19:52] That’s a really good example of how to go about it. If you want a tip, for the listener out there, you don’t have to all of a sudden decide that they don’t fit in your life. Some people just don’t know. If you can come to them and have an honest conversation about what you’re aiming for in life, they’re going to do one of two things. They’re going to not understand and they’ll maybe come back to you in a little bit, or they’re going to be like, you know what? That sounds really cool, and I might want some of it too. I guess there’s the third thing, that’s where your sister landed. It’s like, they’re going to go completely in the opposite direction. They’re going to fight everything you do, talk down to you, they’re going to get extremely jealous, extremely judgmental. Work on them, maybe it is still an understanding issue, but at some point you got to cut your energy and stop pushing your energy into that person to try to bring them along your journey with you. They’re sucking the energy out of your journey, and you got to move on past that.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:21:02] That might look like something as simple as, sitting down and getting paper and a pen, two columns, you write their name on and you see the pros and the cons of the relationship. What do they bring to you? What do they add? Sometimes it might be something as simple as support. Maybe you feel you’re the one always reaching out to someone, and that takes energy. But if they give back, meaning when you reach out, they connect with you. When you spend time with them, it’s like you’re in paradise because you are great friends, and they get you, you get each other, and you can be yourself, then that’s a great relationship to keep. But if you’re constantly reaching out to someone and they’re not responding, or they’re constantly reneging last minute and not showing up, whatever it is, maybe assess whether that relationship is meant to be a longer term one. It might be one you reduce and reach out once every couple of months instead. Or let it hang out for a bit and see if they ever come back. I’ve done that to a few people and been like, you know what? I’m done reaching out to this person. They know my number, they know how to get ahold of me. Some have never reached out again. I went, okay, it was meant to be.

 

Brian Persson: [00:22:13] That comes down to, how do you decide who’s going to get left behind and who’s not? There’s the, write down the pros, write down the cons. One of the things that I like to do is, observe growth. If you can see them growing along with you, maybe it’s not at your pace, but maybe they are starting to move forward, then that to me is a sign that, they’re willing to come on a journey with you. They’re willing to build up their muscles, build up the steam behind their journey, and perhaps one day catch up to you.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:22:54] I want to be clear, that’s good for any kind of friends, associates, acquaintances, even siblings, cousins, that kind of thing. But when it comes to the near and dear, like your parents for example, they might never want to grow the way you are. They might not have the ability either, as we are gracefully entering aging parent time. Look at what that relationship gives you and what it’s for. For example, your mom, she just wanted a relationship with her son.

 

Brian Persson: [00:23:25] She just wants the best relationship she can have with her kids.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:23:29] You had to take that away and reflect on, what does that mean? What does that mean when I’m with my mom and my family? I know you had a big mind shift around that to, how you saw your mom, how you dealt with your mom, how you spent time with your mom. When we’re with your parents, you’re right, we no longer talk about business, real estate, anything like that. If they ask, sure we’ll answer it, but that is not what we talk about. We realized they’re your parents, and same with mine. They’re our parents, and they’ve done a lot for us. I give a huge shout out to any parents out there because that’s a huge responsibility to be raising children. Now I look at it as I give back, it’s like, my parents for example, they will never be financially independent. I’ve had to accept that. What does that mean for me and what does that mean for my relationship with them? I also had to come to terms with it and say, you know what? I love my parents. I want to spend time with them when I can. I want to be here for as long as they’re here. That looks like, being open to the relationship it is and not pushing them. Not pushing my opinion on them, not making suggestions that they definitely don’t want to hear from me and just being their daughter. You’re just being the son to your mom. We’re saying, don’t just shove your parents out because they don’t understand that you’re growing. We’re not saying that. That could work, definitely, for some friends who are adding negativity, but parents, hopefully not are adding negativity, they want you to be safe. They love you for who you are and they don’t want to see you hurt. That’s the space they speak to you in.

 

Brian Persson: [00:25:10] It’s the same thing as your sister. Instead of pushing her out, you completely reframed the relationship with her. Which meant, I’m not putting any energy, I’m not putting any communication into this. It is going to be a zero sum game on my side. Friends might have to go down that path too where, like you said, you stopped communicating with them. It’s not necessarily the end of the relationship, it’s just the reframing of how that relationship goes down. For my mom, I was pushing a better life on her because I saw a better life for her. That’s not what my parents wanted, and I was blind to see that. That my parents were happy, they were comfortable, they enjoyed their life as it was. The life that I saw for them was just not in their cards. They had to explain that to me, and I had to accept that. Once I did, I was totally happy with the new relationship that was the ‘now’ relationship with my parents. It works out great.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:26:25] Exactly, and same with mine. All right, recap today’s takeaways. The first one is, learn to read the room. Number two, you’ll find that people are threatened by you. Number three, people might have to be left behind. In our next episode we’ll be talking about how to create realistic real estate investment goals as a couple. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Life by Design podcast.

 

Brian Persson: [00:26:52] Before you go, don’t forget to visit discoverlifebydesign.ca/wealth, and grab your free download of, ‘The Three Mistakes That Keep Couples From Building Their Wealth’. We release new episodes every two weeks, so be sure to hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast app and join us on this journey to create your life by design.

 

Jessilyn Persson: [00:27:12] Thanks again for listening, it’s been a pleasure being with you today. We’re Jessilyn and Brian, and we’ll see you next time.